Imex-Erik

Sorry, I had to cutout the sound card, but otherwise it is a pretty solid little build plate
Running a Betaflight Omnibus V2 for a legit fully working BF-OSD with all kinds of neat info, PDB with 5V and 12V regulators, OP Scout, TCB, FRSky D4R-II (soon to be upgraded to X4R, I ran out of RXs!) with PPM, Taigen sound card and speaker, RCTA Viper for volume control via TX (channel passthrough via TCB), filtered 5V for FPV cam, filtered 12V for VTX, servo elevation, takes 2-3S lipo (my Leo likes the higher voltage for speed), and modular. The only thing needed to hook up in this board is the motors to which I have also made adapters to use the stock connectors, I just needed to pretty the wires up a bit.
Soon I'll get some FPV video of my Leo, right now I'm at the mercy of customs while I wait for some stuff I am waiting on an adjustable output VTX and the new Swift 2 camera to get here. I've got the Owl+ already for night driving but I had a small "incident" with the concrete and I can no longer see out of it lol.

Code501

I have a question: I want to have the OPScout to play around with, but the only way to get one is to make one yourself. Now I wanted to know what the best way would be to get one if you do not have the equipment/abilities to solder such a PCB. Are there companies that can do this for me?

LukeZ

Probably your best option is to wait until we can get a manufacturer to produce these. Rest assured I am still working on that, but it takes a long time. So far I have met with several closed doors but I have not exhausted all my options yet.

Making boards in small quantities by hand is not cost-effective, though it can be done (that is how I have made the prototypes). But there is a high failure rate and I can't tell you how much money I've dumped in the trash over the last several years making TCBs and Scouts, and for every one that was sent out for free as samples there was another one or two that had to be scrapped. I am still assembling Scouts occasionally but the effort and money involved means it only makes sense to do so for the goal of attracting a producer, not to sell to individuals.

While the per-unit cost becomes quite reasonable in production, the up-front costs of manufacturing are very significant, and it doesn't make sense to produce something unless you plan to make several hundred units at least. If anyone has ten grand laying around they want to donate, we can get a production run going. But since I don't have that kind of money the next approach is to cajole a company into investing their own, with the carrot being they get to keep the profits. The problem is the company wants to know there will be any profits, and unless a prior history of sales can be pointed to, there is no way to assure them. But of course if no one will produce it, there is no way to get a prior history of sales... so it is sort of a chicken-and-egg problem.

We are very fortunate Hobby King has agreed to make the TCB which is the most important component to have at this stage. Even that arrangement has taken over a year to get off the ground (and we are still waiting). Right now no one knows if the TCB will sell or be a flop, but if it is successful that will go a long way to paving the way for HK or other companies to be willing to invest in our other ideas/products.

Making hardware available is definitely one of the biggest challenges this project faces, and is one of the downsides to having no clear profit motive. It still remains to be seen whether this entire enterprise will ultimately be successful. I appreciate everyone's patience as we watch in real-time what is, at the end of the day, a grand experiment into the unknown - and I apologize for the frustrating realities that go hand in hand with this approach.

Springman65

I have read this thread and would like to try this product. Any idea as to when Hobby King is going to offer it? I do not see it mentioned on their site as of this posting?

Springman

LukeZ

I got an update from Hobby King over the weekend. They are only just now starting production, boards are expected in the store around mid-May. Sale price for the TCB has tentatively been projected between $50-$60 US.

I'm just relaying what I've been told. Hobby King controls the process at this point, so if timelines change remember I'm just the messenger! But this is still within their original projection of Spring 2017.

Code501

That's good news! I'm eager to see for myself what this board can do.

Springman65

My interest in this path is probably no unique; I have two older Tamiya 1/16th tanks that were shelved many years ago due to electronics failure (MF-DMD issue). As I am sure a lot of you know, the cost of those units to replace has always been steep. But, if you loose or need to replace both unit, then just buying another kit is within reason - or it was.....

SO, I have two tanks, an old KT from the 1990s and I T1 from just after that kit's original release that have no MF or DMD units. So, I think they are great possible candidates for me to venture into the OnePanzer Project with....

Thanks,

Springman

PS - Hope you find someone to make that Scout controller and a add-on sound board - a complete solution would be AWESOME!

bowlman

Hi
Any news on board when it will before sale .
Thanks
jimmy

Crius

Jimmy, I'm waiting for this myself, as I'm thinking it might be the perfect board for the 1/6 Hetzer. I might even do some things that might surprise the designers. I'm wondering if I can use a 6S lipo and some kind of step down transformer to power the TCB with 12 volts and the motors with 24. So much to learn. For example, if the TCB is on 12 volts will I need special servos or an inline resistor or something? I think since the Hetzer is turretless I can use servos for elevation and traverse of the paintball cannon, and possibly a servo to pull the trigger if I go the modified paintball pistol route. I might even find something to use the built in motor controllers for, like maybe rotation for the MG34? Like I said, so much to learn, but can't really get started until I get the TCB. I'll be ordering a sabertooth 2x32 today to handle the motors. And here's another question - if the TCB is on 12 volts will I still get the proper voltage at things like the light plug ins? Maybe I should step the TCB all the way down to 7.4 volts? So much to learn. Wait, didn't I already say that?

RichJohnson

Im waiting to be a beta tester myself aswell. Think it will be perect for the 1:6 m5 stuart.

LukeZ

I know about as much as you guys as to what Hobby King is thinking or doing. Communication is not their strong suit. Mid-May is what they told me last time, I've asked for an update and will post here as soon as I get one.

Crius - lights and servo outputs on the TCB are regulated at 5 volts regardless of what voltage you apply to the board. Here is the detailed description of voltages taken from the Power Supply page of the Wiki:

LukeZ

Hobby King has given me an update and perhaps not surprisingly, they are pushing back the date. They now predict a release in the last week of June or early July.

Given my past experience I think it would be wise to take this information with a grain of salt, as they have given me now several timelines that did not pan out. There are many divisions at Hobby King, and the production company is not the same as the sales departments. It is unclear to me whether any one person there actually knows the full story, which may explain the inaccurate predictions.

Anyway, my apologies for the delay! The production is out of my hands so I have no control over the schedule. Whatever the actual date, let's hope the boards will be ready soon.

I will of course post here as I know more. Thanks for your patience.

Springman65

That is OK Luke, it was sort of expected as stated. I am at the ready to get one or two when they come on the market. BUt, the aspet of Open Panzer that concerns me is the Open Source sound. I have to tell you that in my opinion will be very important to the success of the TCB's marketability. How is that coming along?

Springman

uglyduck

Thanks for the update Luke, much appreciated. I too am on board when it arrives. Along with the sound board, any news on the Scout ESC?

LukeZ

I have a functioning sound card prototype, you can see more details here: Open Panzer Sound Card

It works quite well with the TCB, but some quality sound file-sets definitely need to be created. I am not a sound engineer so I will leave that up to others. I have a handful of these built that I will send out to testers for that purpose, once the TCB is released. There is no point pursuing production of the sound card until it has been vetted and tested, in the event hardware changes become necessary.

As always, keep in mind that me having wonderful product X in my grubby hands is not the same as being able to purchase one. That is the problem with the Scout ESC at present, the development is done, the product works great, but no one sells it and maybe no one ever will. The update on the Scout as of today is that the companies I've approached about it have either turned it down or else failed to respond after multiple inquiries, which is probably the same thing.

I will keep pounding the pavement on these fronts and report back if any progress is made.

Of course all these designs are freely available, so if anyone has a factory laying around feel free to run us off a batch.

RichJohnson

So if the scout is not made where does one get a tank type esc for the tcb?

LukeZ

Have you read the Wiki? There are a multitude of options.

bowlman

I done got a Sabertooth coming to use myself .
Jimmy

Springman65

Yes, I opted for a Sabertooth and picked one up for the effort as well. The Scout would be nice, but there are several other ways to go out there - the OP Wiki is a testament to that.

I could live with a OSS daughter board that utilize the Teensy 3.2; but I think the delivery of OSS (Open Source Sound) will be a major factor in the success or failure of the TCB. ANd, I hope the TCB2 (if it every happens) would just integrate the TCB and OSS.

Springman

LukeZ

I agree with you completely Springman, it would be ideal to integrate sound with the other functions of the TCB. When I started this project things like the Teensy and its amazing audio software resources did not exist, not to mention my abilities were untested and my knowledge very limited. Much of what I have endeavored to do is proof-of-concept. Although I see now it can all be made to work, I did not know that at the beginning, I could only proceed at each step as far as my abilities and existing resources would allow.

If we were to re-design the project from the ground up starting today it would take a different form, but my hope is that the development and proof-work that has been completed thus far can be built on by others.

PJRC released in late 2016 some incredible new development boards called the Teensy 3.5 and 3.6. Either of these could form the basis of an advanced control board with integrated sound, and probably cost less at the same time. Ultimately one would want to create their own board, but the fact you can get them so cheaply in breadboard compatible format makes them extremely easy to prototype and prove with. Code would need to be ported and the sound functionality integrated into the TCB firmware. This is a major undertaking but there is no question it could all be made to work with resources now available.

So there is a lot that could be done, and a lot that would be great to do. But all of it takes time and energy and there is no money to be made from it, so volunteers are required. For now I'm focused on seeing the TCB released with all its limitations and possibilities both. If a community can be created around this project as a result, then sky will truly be the limit. Otherwise it is hard to see a way forward for a Mk 2 design. But I agree with you it would be great to get to that point some day.

bowlman

It should be getting close if they stick to June Release I hope .
Jimmy

Crius

Me too, Jimmy. I'd really like to use one in my Hetzer!

superrod

My Feedback: (16)

Was ordering servo's from Servo City and found this page. https://www.servocity.com/electronics/motor-controllers could any of these be an option?
Jimmy

Crius

The dual motor controllers should work with the TCB, in place of the Scout, but it still won't give you things like sound and smoke and lights.

LukeZ

Good question Jimmy. I've seen those controllers. Some of them could be made to work with the TCB, but I've not done so because there is no advantage. Compared to the existing options (Sabertooth or Pololu Qik) they either don't have the required features or are more expensive for no performance gain.

For example, the TReX Dual controller is actually another Pololu product. It allows 13 amps continuous per motor but costs $100. The Pololu Qik 2s12v10 which the TCB is compatible with also allows 13 amps per motor (in fact it uses the exact same chips as on the TReX) but is smaller and only costs $75. The TReX has other options that increase its cost but those features are not needed for tank applications. So while it is certainly possible to add compatibility for the TReX, there's not much point.

The "Simple Motor Controllers" on that page are also Pololu products. They are fine, but only control a single motor each. By the time you bought two of them and deal with the spaghetti wiring that would be required you are no better off.

Similarly the RoboClaw controllers are fine products, but don't offer anything beyond existing options. Consider for example the RoboClaw 2x15 that costs $90. It is roughly equivalent to the Qik 2s12v10 for $75 or the Sabertooth 2x12 for $80 (or two X-Car 45A ESCs for $20 combined, but that's not really comparing apples to apples). Likewise the RoboClaw 2x30 is $125 but the Sabertooth 2x32 is also $125. So again no real advantage. But if someone does want to use the RoboClaws then again it certainly would be possible to add some code to accomodate those.